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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Ricardo Lagos

Interviewed November 23, 2024

What I would say is that… First of all people everywhere discover how sincere you are. How much sincerity [there is] in your words. How much passion, how much you believe [in] that.

I believed it was possible to defeat Pinochet. I had no doubt. The question was how we were going to make other people to believe that. [Augusto Pinochet was dictator of Chile between 1973 and 1990.]

Number two: I had to be able to knock on the door of every house in Chile and say: “I invite [you] to say ‘no’ because one, two, three, four”.

I discovered that in democratic countries it is much more difficult to knock the door and say: “I am coming to invite you to vote for me”. It is quite different than to say [to someone] to vote against a dictator. Because it is not very humble to knock the door on your house and say: “I invite you to vote for me”.

“Because I think that I know better than you what [has] to be done in this country.” It is not very humble. I always used to say: “politician is a not a profession for very humble people”. They have to tell you why they wanted to…

But [you] better have good ideas. This is what I am trying to say. [You] better believe [in] what you are talking about. Otherwise it is a “no”. Second, I think that the way that you are going to defeat a dictatorship is extremely important to the type of political system you will have afterwards.
Because we defeated [Pinochet] with a plebiscite, then it was possible to have the transition that we had. It was not perfect. Of course it was not. But at least it was possible to have a non-violent transition.

There had been so many people killed. So many people had disappeared, etc., etc. But afterwards, in our transition we were able to have a Presidential Commission to see what happened. We had dialogue and, as a result of that dialogue, I remember that the Commander in Chief went to see me one day and said: “Mr. President, do you want to know the truth?” “Yes, I want the truth.”

“Many of those who disappeared were thrown away in the ocean. They are in the ocean.” And I remember that I asked him: “What did you put in the ocean: a human being or a body, a dead body?” And he told me: “A dead body”.

It is very [shocking], don’t you think so? But that is the way we did that transition. And this is why one day, later, we did some other things, like trying to do things in the area of the human rights violations, political prisoners, torture and things like that.
But I think that is the only way to do it. And I think [that] because we did it nonviolently then we had a non-violent transition.

And that is why it is so important what kind of instruments you are going to use. It is true [that] Chile used to be a democratic country according to our traditions… I never thought when I was studying or when I was young that I was going to be living through a dictatorship in Chile.

For me that was impossible to think about. In some other countries maybe, but not here. But you never know. And the fact is that later on we discovered that [that] was important.