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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Max du Preez

Interviewed November 26, 2024

When South Africans started talking about a negotiated settlement for a democratic future, we had to figure out what do we do with the past. And there were three options. One is Nuremberg type trials like in Germany, which had the disadvantage of not being good for reconciliation at that heated moment, that it might not have been accepted by the National Party establishment, and that it wouldn’t work properly, that people would just destroy documentation, and that there wouldn’t be the capacity to actually prosecute people. Or blanket amnesty—do nothing, and I think the National Party was quite keen on that, to say, “Well, let’s just give everybody amnesty.”

In fact they asked for that, and it was a bureaucratic bungling that happened that they didn’t get it. But that’s what they aimed at. And the third was a kind of a way of handling the past without damaging the political process, a way of not forgetting everything, but not putting people in jail for the rest of their lives. And that was the Truth Commission and it served its role perfectly well, I think.

[The Nuremberg trials were a series of military tribunals set up by Allied forces after World War II to prosecute Nazi war criminals. They took place from 1945 – 1946. The National Party, founded in 1914, ruled South Africa from 1948 to 1994. Its following included mostly Dutch-descended Afrikaners and English-speaking whites. The National Party was long dedicated to policies of apartheid and white supremacy. By the early 1990s, the party had moved toward sharing power with South Africa’s black majority.]

People—the popular perception now is that the Truth Commission was a flop. You ask people around and they say, “Well, you know, where is the reconciliation? I mean, look at us.” Well, I want to remind them of what we looked like in 1989, and then they will see the reconciliation, the way we South Africans treat each other on the factory floor, in the offices, in the suburbs, in sports stadiums. It’s with respect. The relationships between groups and ethnic groups and races in this country are among the healthiest of any diverse society on this planet. And maybe it’s a compliment to us that we think it’s still bad because our standards are high, but it is really—we’re really doing well on that front. I think if we didn’t have the Truth Commission we wouldn’t be where we are now. I’m fairly convinced of that.

It did give the satisfaction to black South Africans that their history would be acknowledged, that their stories would be listened to. Before that people who were tortured or had a husband or a child killed, the official version was, “Well, you’re a communist, you’re a terrorist, or you’re lying.” And now, especially with the cameras of the national broadcast and the microphones of national radio there, people could get on a stage and share their stories and share their pain with the nation and be honored for it, be recognized for it. That was massive, and I saw that firsthand hundreds and hundreds of times over three years, where I had met people beforehand because I had to coach them. “Don’t fear the TV cameras. It’s your camera. I’m not gonna zoom in when you start crying; I’m gonna zoom out. But you want to talk to the rest of—you want to talk to your village, your people, the rest of the nation? That’s what these cameras are for.”

So I had this kind of relationship with many of the victims and people who were giving testimony. And the relief among the vast majority of them just to get this out, and then waiting on Sunday night—“I’m actually gonna see, and I get my family together and my congregation together, and we sit there and we watch my story being told, because my story is the story of thousands of others also who didn’t make it to the Truth Commission public hearings”—that was massive.

It did I think pull the sting of—in terms of the black community it pulled the sting of most of the anger of that violent—physical violence of apartheid. However, it was a flawed process. Because it was part of a deal, of a political deal, it dealt only with gross violations of human rights, very properly explained what they were, between 1960 and 1994. And I think that was important, the person to person violence—torture, kidnapping, assault, murder—but it’s not the story of apartheid.

The damage of apartheid was not in terms of how many people died, because people outside of the country are surprised to find out that actually few people were killed by apartheid. It was not a “Final Solution” kind of process. People were not put up against walls and shot in their hundreds, not at all—not at all.

It was much worse. It was the enslaving of people’s minds. It was telling them over generations that, “You are inferior. You are stupid. Black is half-human. White is superior. European is the standard and you will never make it. This is not your country. Go and live in your homeland. Here’s a pass that you have to carry. And a child of 16—if you’re a grandfather of 80, a white child of 16 can sign your pass and give you permission to walk around in your own homeland.” [The apartheid era government in South Africa created 10 Homelands or Bantustans as territories designated for the black population. Black South Africans were stripped of their citizenship and granted citizenship in one of the homelands. Four of the homelands were declared to be independent nations by the government. After the fall of the apartheid system, the homelands were abolished.]

The forced removals of living for generations and generations in one place, and then a white official comes and he says, “Get the hell out of here and go into some godforsaken place.” That was the damage of apartheid. On the white side it was a very unpopular process, but it in hindsight is the main reason why we don’t have apartheid denialism in this society. We have Holocaust denialism. We have all kinds—after any such big event, any genocide or big event like this in the world’s history over the last 100 years, there’s a tendency afterwards to go into denial by the perpetrating group.

That did not happen and is not happening in South Africa, because white South Africans were forced morning, noon, and night to watch on television and listen on radio and see in newspapers men who looked like me and carried my name standing there and saying, “I please want to have amnesty because I tortured these guys, and those were the circumstances, and then I said this, and I killed those people.” And then those people he tortured would come to the Truth Commission and my cameras would be on them and they would say, “This is what this man did to me.” And it was reality television that was never seen before and will never be seen again. It was extremely powerful because it was genuine human drama. And unspeakable stuff that was done was shown to the nation.

So whites South Africans couldn’t afterwards say, “Well, no, it didn’t happen,” because they knew the whole world saw it, and they saw it, and black South Africans—we saw it together. So that was an extremely important event, to realize once and for all if you didn’t before how evil apartheid really was and the pain that it caused and the resentment that it caused, because you needed white South Africans to carry that with them, because when the Truth Commission was over in ’99, it wasn’t gonna just be a Sunday school picnic. They needed to carry that knowledge, that the resentments this is what the resentment was about, and it will manifest itself. And I think it’s worked very well in that way.