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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Max du Preez

Interviewed November 26, 2024

I think that it’s quite interesting to look at the white reaction. They were fed this kind of total onslaught on civilization nonsense by the military and the police and the politicians, the apartheid politicians, for ages, but not less so in the 1980s. So I think if you asked—if you had an opinion survey in 1988 among white people and Afrikaans people, “Should we have a democracy, should we abolish apartheid?” 80, 90 percent would’ve said, “Absolutely not.”

“Should we release the ANC [African National Congress]?”

“Absolutely not.”

[The African National Congress (ANC) is a political party that served as the most prominent resistance movement against South Africa’s apartheid system, at times resorting to violence through its military wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe. It was officially banned by the South African government from 1960 to 1990. As apartheid collapsed, the ANC’s leader, Nelson Mandela, was elected President of South Africa in 1994 and established a democratic government.]

So there was a bit of a bravery going on in terms of de Klerk and his inner group. The Afrikaner Broederbond played an interesting role in preparing for this decision, because they—where they were kind of behind the party and further back, they suddenly went ahead because they had a new leader, a man by the name of Pieter de Lange, and they realized—he had meetings with Thabo Mbeki in New York earlier, and he realized that the Afrikaner Broederbond was ideally placed to prepare society, Afrikaner society for this kind of thing. So over months and months and months they had masses of private meetings and small meetings and house meetings and influenced leaders and kind of prepare the ground for this.

[The Afrikaner Broederbond, or Afrikaner Brotherhood in English, was a South African secret society composed of Afrikaans-speaking, Protestant, white men over the age of 25 that was established in 1918. Pieter de Lange served as the organization’s chairman from 1984 to 1994. Thabo Mbeki (1942 – ) is a South African politician and anti-apartheid supporter from the ANC. He was the second post-apartheid President of South Africa from 1999-2008.]

I think F.W. de Klerk, if he does deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, it would be for the fact that once this decision was made, which he had little other choice but to make, he should get credit for the fact that he then sold it to his constituency. He worked tirelessly—I watched him. He crisscrossed this country. He spoke at house meetings, at town meetings, at church meetings. He spoke to the military. He spoke to the police to try and sell the idea that the tide of history has turned. It’s safe now with international communism gone. We need prosperity in this country, and we’re not gonna get it.

And apartheid didn’t work out, and here’s a way, and I promise you you’re gonna have minority protection and all kinds of other things. And then he had the guts to call a white referendum in ’93, which if he had lost it—and a lot of people before that referendum said he could lose it—it would’ve meant the end of his career. And that took guts, to say, “Well, then, so be it. Then I’ll go down with it.” And in the end he got almost 70 percent.

[Frederick Willem de Klerk (1936 – ) served as President of South Africa from 1989 – 1994. Under de Klerk’s leadership the apartheid system was dismantled, the African National Congress’ 30 year ban ended, political prisoners were released and majority (multiracial) elections were established.

So yeah, it went against the grain for most whites, especially most Afrikaners, but this cajoling was going on, and a bit of false promises and a bit of wrong expectations and a bit of pressure. And of course then you had stuff like the international community started playing a role and saying, “Well, we like what we’re seeing. You can have the All Blacks and the Australian rugby team come and play in South Africa again for the first time in many years.” Now that is a very, very strong thing to tell an Afrikaner audience, that if you prepare to compromise and we have a deal here, you can—because rugby is very close to Afrikaner middle class religion.

We can play the All Blacks again, we can play the English, because Afrikaners always believed that we were the best in the world, and the only reason why we’re not the champion rugby team is because we were not allowed to play them. And here was the chance.

[The All Blacks are the national rugby team of New Zealand.]

So all those kind of—we could travel again. White people could travel all over the world. The passport suddenly became one accepted everywhere. So all these little things added up.

There was a right wing that resisted this, and the very same Constand Viljoen that I referred to earlier was the man who—he had then retired as head of the Defense Force, but he was still a very powerful man. He formed a committee of generals and they mobilized something like 150,000 people in the country with arms, and a lot of them inside the Defense Force, to essentially, if need be, effect a coup. And again, two factors meant that that didn’t happen. One was the regular Defense Force stayed true to course. They stayed true to culture of serving the government of the day, which is why the blessings we have in South Africa before ’94 and after 1994. We don’t have a culture of a military breathing down the neck of a civilian government.

So we know—I know how unhappy the military were at de Klerk’s plans, and yet they had to support him.

[General Constand Viljoen (1933 – ) is a former South African military commander and politician.]

So the head of the Defense Force at the time, General [Georg] Meiring, went to General Constand Viljoen who was the leader of this masked group of people all over the country who were going to stage a coup and said to him—and Viljoen was his mentor. They were close friends, and he said to him, “My friend, you know that I will have to shoot you if you launch this campaign, because this is my job under the constitution.” So that was a little fortuitous thing.

[General Georg Meiring (1939 – ) was the last commander of the South African Defense Force from 1993 – 1994 and first commander of the South African National Defense Force in 1994 – 1998.]

The other thing was Nelson Mandela. You could never throw out the role that he played. He specifically met with Constand Viljoen and his generals and his men, and reassured them and cajoled them and seduced them. But also in terms of broader South Africa he became the face of the ANC, and white South Africans were astonished to see this handsome, dignified man walk from jail—27 years—and he didn’t want to chuck them in the sea.

He was this generous, sweet, wise man. And it’s not something one can measure, but my feeling is always that if we had a different kind of leader than Mandela, a lesser charismatic, a less—someone who didn’t understand that what he was supposed to do, that we would’ve had a different way of developing.

But he came with this vision of, “I have to seduce the white people. I have to take them with me. I have to reassure them. I have to take them with me. I have to liberate them, also, and at the same time I have to keep my constituency behind me.” And that was a dance that few people could dance, that he danced very successfully.

[Nelson Mandela (1918 – 2013) was a South African anti-apartheid revolutionary and politician who served as the first post-apartheid President of South Africa from 1994-1999.]