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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Max du Preez

Interviewed November 26, 2024

I had an old friend from university days who became a politician. His name was Frederik van Zyl Slabbert. He then became a politician for the white opposition, the Progressive Party. So we kept contact and in ’87 he had a discussion with me and said, well, he feels he has to leave the party, because at this point I am now very close to the internal resistance in the country called the United Democratic Front, the UDF, which the ANC [African National Congress] still claims was a sister organization inside the country. We never experienced as part of the ANC but as an authentic internal resistance—that’s what I had drifted to.

So they started in 1983 and by 1985, ’86 I did everything I could in my journalism and in my private life to further those ends because I fully associated with them.

[Frederik van Zyl Slabbert (1940 – 2010) was a South African politician who led the Progressive Reform Party and opposed apartheid. The United Democratic Front was a multiracial anti-apartheid coalition. The African National Congress (ANC) is a political party that served as the most prominent resistance movement against South Africa’s apartheid system, at times resorting to violence through its military wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe. It was officially banned by the South African government from 1960 to 1990. As apartheid collapsed, the ANC’s leader, Nelson Mandela, was elected President of South Africa in 1994 and established a democratic government.]

And I was asked by these English language newspapers, the National Mail and Sunday Times, to write on the white politics of the white parliament, and I kept on saying, “But it’s a sideshow. The real politics of South Africa are outside of parliament. It’s in the streets. It’s in the trade unions. It’s in the UDF. It’s in the churches. It’s in community organizations. It’s in the mass protests. It’s in the ANC.” And here I am in this white elephant once again.

So I had this conversation with van Zyl Slabbert, who felt exactly the same way—I think he might’ve even influenced me to feel that way—and he then dramatically resigned from parliament, saying, “This is a white elephant, and this is irrelevant, and real politics happen outside.” He asked me to help organize a group that were going to meet with the ANC, still then a banned organization in exile, to see what the possibilities would be of talking about the future, talking about a democracy, talking about a settlement, partly for us to find that information, to meet the guys; partly for them to meet some of us and to sort of break the ice. But mainly if this didn’t turn out to be a flop, to have it serve as a way of changing the atmosphere inside the country, ‘cause at this point, 1987, ’87, South Africa was bordering on a civil war. We had mass protests.

[Banning was a legal process during apartheid enabled primarily by the Suppression of Communism Act, where individuals were prohibited from communicating with more than one person at a time and from traveling domestically or internationally without permission. Organizations were also banned by the government. The media was restricted in covering banned individuals.]

We had 10,000 people in jail at any given time without trial. We had death squads running around killing people. We had people disappearing. We had bombs in shopping centers and restaurants. The economy was very bad because we had sanctions against us, sport boycotts and cultural boycotts. It just kind of—it was a rough neighborhood in the ‘80s, in the late ‘80s.

So we then did this. We went with a group of sixty people to Dakar in Senegal and we met a delegation of the ANC under Thabo Mbeki. And again it’s one of those things that sort of pushes you along, that tips you further into, not only because I met these guys and spent a few days socializing with them, drinking with them and talking with them and seeing who they really were—you know, people like Thabo Mbeki—and Mac Maharaj and Pallo Jordan and Steve Tshwete and so on, and Kader Asmal—but also knowing the reaction from back home was that we were traitors and we were communist fellow-travelers and we should be shot and so on.

And that pushes you along a little bit more. It alienated me a little bit more from the white establishment and from my Afrikaner roots, which makes you slightly more committed to fight for more change.

[Thabo Mbeki (1942 – ) is a South African politician and anti-apartheid supporter from the African National Congress (ANC). He was the second post-apartheid President of South Africa from 1999-2008. Sathyandranath Ragunanan “Mac” Maharaj (1935 – ) is a South African politician affiliated with the ANC, academic and businessman. He was an anti-apartheid supporter and a member of the ANC’s militant wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe. Zweledinga Pallo Jordan (1942 – ) is a South African politician affiliated with the ANC. He was an anti-apartheid supporter who was involved in the ANC’s research and communications efforts. Steve Vukhile Tshwete (1938 – 2002) was a South African politician and anti-apartheid supporter with the ANC and was involved in the party’s militant wing, the Umkhonto we Sizwe. Abdul Kader Asmal (1934 – 2011) was a South African politician, academic, and human rights activist who served in the first post-apartheid government. Afrikaners are the descendants of Dutch settlers who came to Africa’s Cape of Good Hope in 1652. During the Anglo-Boer Wars that spanned the 19th and 20th centuries, the Afrikaners were overtaken by the British Empire and agreed to live under British rule.]

And I think when we talk about change, we should always remember this kind of personal element. It’s not all just bravery and conscience. These things happen to you. There was no way I could post this Dakar safari come back and work in the mainstream again. The doors were just closed.