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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Frene Ginwala

Interviewed November 26, 2024

[International sanctions] were critical because South Africa was already heavily in debt and was not getting loans. This was the real – financial sanctions had had that impact. They couldn’t roll over their loans easily, and they were running out of money because what had happened now was they were also trying to upgrade the African areas, the townships, but because very few whites had ever gone into the townships, they had no idea what the conditions were like. And there were newspaper reports in South Africa of the white conscripts who were going in, coming out throwing up and so on because they had never seen the conditions under which African people lived. So this also, now they were trying to buy support. They had to make concessions – they had been spending a lot on white areas, but now they had to do something about trying to change that climate.

[Under apartheid, townships were residential areas designated for non-white groups. Non-whites were prohibited from living in areas reserved for whites.]

Also, by now, they couldn’t use the old arguments that it was only the black people who were going to be affected. They tried to adapt apartheid. It was not possible the way things were. And people in the country were not accepting it anymore. They were making the country ungovernable right across in any way they could.

So this is what was the context and the result of a whole range of measures. Sanctions was one of them.

But the whole question of loans, and loans to South Africa was a major international campaign.

So we were targeting particular companies with all of this, and this whole international network was very important. If it had been just one country, one company, it wouldn’t have worked.

You know, it was – people tended to think of boycotts and things as not buying South African products. Yes, it was there, but that was not enough. It was when you targeted the big companies for their products, when you targeted oil, when you targeted arms, which had already now gone through. There were no arms for South Africa. So those were the things. This was a strategic campaign. There was the popular one.

For example, when Barclay’s Bank in Britain was targeting students for – to open accounts, immediately the British anti-apartheid movement started targeting students to say don’t bank with Barclay’s. When Barclay’s pulled out of South Africa, they said it was the hassle factor. Apart from the student, the fact that by now, and this is something the Americans had started, people bought shares in companies and they went to annual general meetings, raised issues there. In Britain, there was now a law that you had to put in your annual reports any donations made to anyone so that they were forced to declare any support they were giving. This sort of thing built up. It wasn’t done by the ANC as such. It was the broader anti-apartheid movement.