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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Czeslaw Bielecki

Interviewed November 26, 2024

I think that, fortunately, it was Poland and Poles who started to make the beginning of the end of communism. I tried to describe how long was our struggle. Of course, our struggle was not the bloodiest, but not by chance. We were called the most enjoyable barrack in the camp, but that’s because even [Joseph] Stalin [leader of the Soviet Union from 1924-1953] was saying that communism for Poles is as a saddle for a cow.

That it doesn’t work with Poles to – the fact that in Poland, Poland was the only country in which agriculture wasn’t collectivized, wasn’t transformed into kolkhoz [Russian term referring to a type of collective farm] totally, was not because Stalin was so tolerant, or his governor for Poland, [Boleslaw] Bierut, was so tolerant, but because it wasn’t feasible. [Boleslaw Bierut was a Polish communist politician. He was president from 1947 – 1952.] There’s always a balance between the profits and the costs.

So I’m defending since years the idea to transform the Palace of Culture [an enormous building in Warsaw that was constructed in 1955 by the Soviets as a gift to the people of Poland], which is this boot – Stalin’s boot – put in the center of Warsaw. There’s a concrete desert because that’s not a desolate square, that’s a desert. And in the middle of it, there’s this Palace of Culture. By the lack of knowledge of history of art, protectors of listed monuments put this building into the list. That’s not a piece of art as architecture. That’s rather a document as Auschwitz barracks or Dachau camp [Nazi labor camps infamous for their role in the genocide of Europe’s Jewish population]. But I think there’s one big value of this building. This building is representing the spirit of communism.

Leviathan had to have something gigantic, something extremely eccentric, something terrorizing in form and in the scale. So I think this building is a fantastic piece of totalitarian architecture. We don’t need, as in Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, which is a building built in – referred to the style of Auschwitz barracks and Auschwitz gates and Auschwitz lamps. We don’t need it. We need just to re-interpret this building. Just show how the facade is different from the caves in which Polish national heroes were tortured and murdered.

So using the entrance space to this building and creating an underground freedom forum with former tribute for leaders, dismantled and set up again on this freedom forum, and having a movie with communist leaders saluting crowds of manifestations 24 hours a day, we can create this contrast between the facade and the hidden struggle with those who were for independence and for democracy and for freedom. We can create this counterpoint between the official vision of communism and the hidden struggle against it. We have a joke: What’s the nicest place in Warsaw? That’s at the top of the Palace of Culture because we don’t see the Palace of Culture from this top.

So there’s so many jokes about this building, and the question of this building is as a challenge of totalitarianism. That’s a question of temptation of scale. What was Poland under communism? It was one single enterprise. What was a political system? All those – this ruling party with so-called free satellites. [Mr. Bielecki refers to the “Democratic Bloc” under the Communist system, where the dominant Polish United Workers Party had a theoretical coalition with three smaller, nominally independent parties.]

What was independence in Poland, in Poland which lost independence? When Mr. [Wojciech] Jaruzelski, as ruling general and general secretary of Communist Party [in Poland], declared martial law, he told us with this fantastic Soviet refreshing hypocrisy that he’s defending independence of Poland. [Wojciech Jaruzelski is a retired Polish military officer and Communist politician. He served as Prime Minister from 1981 to 1985 and head of state from 1985 to 1990.] So against whom? Against Russians. But he didn’t mention. He’s still saying that the Russians wanted to attack us, when now we know from archives of Politburo that they didn’t want, because they had him at place.

He was ready to do everything to be at power. And that’s what we called this lie, paramount lie mentioned by [Aleksandr Isayevich] Solzhenitsyn [a Russian dissident who helped raise global awareness of the Soviet Union´s gulag system from 1918 to 1956], which is the base of the system. That’s why falsification of the values, the imitation of the real virgin economic and political system is this killing factor for freedom.

Each falsification of the word, of the image, of the name, of the tradition is the real danger, is the real danger for freedom. But to come back to the real sense of the words, to real meaning, to real notions, we have to work hard because this falsified vocabulary is the biggest danger. That’s why I put into my new manual, Freedom: A Do-It-Yourself Manual, the short vocabulary of freedom, because I think, discussing it with Belarusians, Cubans, Russians, some Chinese dissidents, that the question is to what extent they internalized the vocabulary of freedom. Not the slogans, but understanding that there’s hard work to do when we want to be just normal.