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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Bogdan Borusewicz

Interviewed November 26, 2024

But yet this freedom out in the world is a contagious thing. You see: The Arabs and North Africa have rebelled. It seemed that the Arabs did not feel this need, you know, for freedom and democracy. You know, that is what the West was saying about us [Poland], the French and the Germans said: “What do the Poles want, they can’t understand that, because they have not lived in a free or democratic country.” And afterwards what I heard about the Arabs of North Africa were very similar assessments. But it turns out they as well want freedom and democracy and they have demonstrated it. So then freedom and the desire for freedom and democracy is a contagious thing.

I traveled to Burma recently where very similar transformations are taking place as in Poland. This is a country that will undoubtedly be making strides toward democracy and it will be pressing ever faster toward democracy. Despite the fact that the dictatorship of the military there was horrendous, was much more horrific than we ever had; it was bloodier. So it seems to me, and I believe this, that we in Central Europe have created in a second wave, which rolled over the world, a new wave of freedom.

The first wave was the 1970s and South America where military dictatorships were toppling one after the other, as in Spain, earlier in Portugal. And in the 1980s this breath of, you know the second wave of freedom, which rolled over east central Europe, and it began with us – the Poles were the ones who began it. And right now, over these last 2 years I am observing dictatorships over the world winding down. It seemed that such places like the Arab countries, the breath of freedom would be an impossibility, that democratic movements would be an impossibility.

It turns out that we were wrong. So what we are observing in the Arab countries is this third wave – after the 1970s in Latin America with the fall of their military dictatorships, after what happened in the 1980s in Central Europe, now it is the turn of the dictatorships of North Africa. So there are few places, there are just enclaves in the world, which are still dictatorships. But their turn will come as well.

Of course, it’s not going to be that someone comes in from the outside and liberates them. This, the people will have to do themselves. No one from the outside will come in and liberate them. At most, they can come in later and help a little with feeding them, because all these countries which continue as dictatorships are in horrendous economic shape. But for those dictators, their turn will come as well, so I am optimistic.