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Freedom Collection

Interviews with Andrzej Celinski

Interviewed November 26, 2024

I had not known Lech Walesa before. I do not think I had ever heard his name. There were other people in KOR who had heard, but I did not. [Bogdan] Borusewicz knew him. Most likely Jan Litynski had heard of him. I don’t know if [Jacek] Kuron had or not. [Lech Walesa was the cofounder of the Solidarity Independent Trade Union and president of Poland from 1990 – 1995. Bogdan Borusewicz was a leading figure in the Polish opposition and a key architect of the Solidarity movement and a prominent post-communist politician. View his Freedom Collection interview here. Jan Litynski was a writer and opposition activist who late became a prominent politician. Jacek Kuron was a Polish historian who became a leading figure of the opposition and a prominent politician after the fall of communism. The Workers’ Defense Committee (KOR) was an anti-communist underground civil society organization in the 1970s, formed to provide assistance to laborers and others persecuted by the government. Many of Solidarity’s leaders were also active in KOR.]

When the [1980] strike broke out in Gdansk among the people involved with the Educational Course Association, which I was busy organizing, between Stefan Amsterdamski, Tadeusz Kowalik, Bronisław Geremek, Tadeusz Mazowiecki – an idea was born to sign an appeal to [both] the authorities and to the striking workers. [Stefan Amsterdamski was philosopher and Solidarity activist. Tadeusz Kowalik was an economist and Solidarity activist. Bronisław Geremek was a Polish historian and politician who served as Foreign Minister after the fall of communism. Tadeusz Mazowiecki was a leader of Solidarity who became the first post-communist prime minister in 1989.]

An appeal for a conversation, for a dialogue. But in reality this was not about the strikers and was not about the authorities – in reality this was about broadening the gray zone between the strikers and the authorities. To tie the authorities’ hands in their initial moment of fury, when these people are out on strike, to extend their period of uncertainty about how to react. Later events, that story has already been written, these people became the advisers. Geremek and Mazowiecki went over there and became their advisers; we assisted them; we sent the various expert opinions to Gdansk. But sometime at the end, toward the middle of September, when Solidarity – you know, the strikes were over, et cetera; it became clear that the central headquarters of Solidarity will be in Gdansk and not in Warsaw.

And it was also clear, especially to the Solidarity experts, our experts like Geremek and Mazowiecki, who knew the Strike Committee, who knew Walesa and knew Gdansk, so it became obvious to them that in Gdansk you would have to locate a cell, a group of people which would serve up intellectual assistance, expert opinions, to the committee, to the Founding Committee in Gdańsk, the former Strike Committee, now the Founding Committee that was effectively in charge of all of Solidarity throughout the country.

So this was offered initially to Waldemar Kuczynski, that he should go over there and set up such a team; he refused, then this position was offered to Ryszard Bugaj. [Kuczynski and Bugaj were leading Solidarity activists.] He refused as well, and then it was offered to me and I did not refuse. After three days in Gdansk, I was invited to the sessions of the Committee Board – there were 20 other people there, with maybe two or three women and the rest were all guys. This board was in session every single day, in a room filled with cigarette smoke, surrounded by several dozen people milling about, with ungodly noise and disorder, for seven or eight hours a day. Meanwhile on the other side of a cardboard-thin door there was a revolution going on. They were completely oblivious to the fact that they were simply wasting their time.

So once or twice I made that remark, from off in the sidelines, that in this noise and static nothing could be accomplished. That there has to be an agenda, there has to be a chairperson, that we have to be aiming for some conclusions, and that a session cannot last for seven or eight hours every day. So then Walesa asked me to start chairing the sessions. After a few days or so I was named Secretary of the Board of the Founding Committee of Solidarity. I had this really good thing going for me that everyone trusted me in that room for some unknown reason. And right off the bat, a conflict ensued between the church and the KOR, so to speak and in quotations. For those who were on the side of KOR – I was their friend because I was a KOR man. For the Church I was a friend primarily because I had studied at the KUL [Catholic University of Lublin], and secondly because the local guru – a Catholic bishop man – as dull a man as you could imagine – had confused my last name of Celinski with that of [Bohdan] Cywinski and I did not straighten him out.

After 3 or 4 weeks, my position was so strong that it did not matter any longer whether I was a KOR man or a Church man – it no longer mattered.